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The Futility Of Dealing With Extremists- The Pakistan/Taliban Troubles
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Pakistan :
Anyone who believes they can reason with fanatics is deluded. They don’t think the same way that normal human beings do. Their thought processes are twisted, so they are unable to see things the way we do, with a balanced mind. So, thinking that you can somehow negotiate with terrorists through diplomatic means or through appeasement is an exercise in utter futility. It’s not going to happen. And that is basically what the Pakistan/Taliban peace agreement is... an exercise in futility. It’s already proving a failure.
First of all, you have 3 Taliban leaders in Wazaristan (Maulvi Hafiz Gul Bahadur, Baitullah Mehsud and Maulvi Nazir) who have regrouped and formed an alliance. This band of thugs calling themselves Shura Ittehad-ul-Mujahideen, have pledged themselves to Mula Muhammad Umer and Osama Bin Laden, and vowed to continue with their Jihad against all
‘infidels’ led by US President Barack Obama, Pakistani President Asif Zardari and Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
Their aims are to
“stop the infidels from carrying out acts of barbarism against innocent people”.
Isn’t that a little like the pot calling the kettle black? How many innocent people have the Taliban killed or maimed over the years, in both Pakistan and Afghanistan?!
Then you have Sufi Mohammed, head of the Pakistani Taliban in Swat, proclaiming to thousands at a rally in support of his purported peace deal that
‘We hate democracy. We want the occupation of Islam in the entire world. Islam does not permit democracy or election.’’
As I have mentioned before, if the Pakistani government thinks that Sufi and his cohorts will be satisfied with just the Swat region of the country, they are total fools.
And what about the latest kidnapping of a government official, Khushal Khan, and 6 of his guards in the Swat Valley, today? Not to mention the murder and beheading of tv reporter and journalist Musa Khan Khel?
All of this in what was supposed to be a 10 day ceasefire?
And although the Pakistani government agreed to a permanent cease-fire, Taliban militants have claimed it is merely temporary, for them, and they “consider an extension when it ends” , the operative words being “consider” and “extension”.
Giving in to extremists will only make them demand more, and when those demands aren’t met the violence will continue until they get more and more concessions.
Militants will never be able to live in peace, they’re hard-wired for violence, and will always find reasons to kill, whether through their jihad against “infidels” or through their religious Sharia Law.
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There are good people and bad People everywhere. But right now radicals in Islamic world is rich with oil money and for quite some time have been financing you know what and now they have to do some PR time to time.
Don't believe me ?? Then tell me why they call you and me infidel ?
Nothing wrong with any religion but the way many interpret it is well radical. Many Muslims are very good at that.
Don't believe me ?? Then tell me why they call you and me infidel ?
Nothing wrong with any religion but the way many interpret it is well radical. Many Muslims are very good at that.
(Global Perspectives)
Ollie,
The radicals call anyone who doesn’t believe in their brand of Islam infidels, including other Muslims. We’re all kuffars.
The radicals call anyone who doesn’t believe in their brand of Islam infidels, including other Muslims. We’re all kuffars.
(Global Perspectives)
I have to tell you, I am not a young man and since I was a kid, I hear nothing but misery coming out of the middle east. When I was a kid, it was all about hijackings, hostages and the like. Then it was suicide bombings.
What truly sickened me was the video of Yassir Arafat and his fellow Palestinians (don't care about spelling) dancing in the streets on 9/11.
By no means do I wish to spark more riots, but I am really convinced they do not have the
same reverence as we do for life that the western world does, and if it wasn't for oil, they would have no bearing/effect on modern society.
What truly sickened me was the video of Yassir Arafat and his fellow Palestinians (don't care about spelling) dancing in the streets on 9/11.
By no means do I wish to spark more riots, but I am really convinced they do not have the
same reverence as we do for life that the western world does, and if it wasn't for oil, they would have no bearing/effect on modern society.
(Global Perspectives)
Vitaly,
Many people think this whole problem started after 9/11 and the war in Iraq, but it actually started in the 70s in Iran, when when they claimed the U.S. was the great Satan and took the embassy people hostage.
And I agree, it was very sad to think that there were people dancing in the streets after 9/11. We have never celebrated when there have been disasters, natural or other, in those regions. In fact, we usually are the first to send money to those people.
In fact we’re pledging multimillions of dollars to Gaza!
Many people think this whole problem started after 9/11 and the war in Iraq, but it actually started in the 70s in Iran, when when they claimed the U.S. was the great Satan and took the embassy people hostage.
And I agree, it was very sad to think that there were people dancing in the streets after 9/11. We have never celebrated when there have been disasters, natural or other, in those regions. In fact, we usually are the first to send money to those people.
In fact we’re pledging multimillions of dollars to Gaza!
(Global Perspectives)
It's not the religion so much as the culture. People do all sorts of things in the name of religion. Doesn't mean the religion is to blame.
(Global Perspectives)
Anna,
Perhaps it’s culture, but that culture is inextricably linked with religion. The Taliban is fighting to establish their strict brand of Shariat law in Swat.. that’s religion. The radicals also always talk about establishing global Islamic rule... that’s religion.
Not to say that all Muslims are like that, but the fundamentalists do happen to be that way, and they do happen to also be Muslims.
Perhaps it’s culture, but that culture is inextricably linked with religion. The Taliban is fighting to establish their strict brand of Shariat law in Swat.. that’s religion. The radicals also always talk about establishing global Islamic rule... that’s religion.
Not to say that all Muslims are like that, but the fundamentalists do happen to be that way, and they do happen to also be Muslims.
(Global Perspectives)
The scary thing about Pakistan is that they have nuclear weapons. If the crazy Jihadis take over completely, and make alliance with, say, Iran, then we've got a big problem. Islam sucks.
(Global Perspectives)
I find it scarey too Reggie but I figure if they decide to nuke - then they will cop it back but there probably won’t be anyone left for them to stand over and rule.
Like Vitaly said they have NO respect or reverence for life, if fact they want to die and be matyrs.
Its the fanatic talibans thats the problem, they are even killing fellow muslims who are petrified of them.
Like Vitaly said they have NO respect or reverence for life, if fact they want to die and be matyrs.
Its the fanatic talibans thats the problem, they are even killing fellow muslims who are petrified of them.
(Global Perspectives)
REGGIE and LYNNE:
Indeed, the nuclear weapon thought is very scary.. then factor in that Iran apparently now has enough for a weapon and you have to wonder.
They will kill anyone who gets in their way, Muslims included, and we are doing nothing to stop it.
One problem is that many non-radical Muslims become very defensive when we start to criticize, even though it has nothing to do with them.
Indeed, the nuclear weapon thought is very scary.. then factor in that Iran apparently now has enough for a weapon and you have to wonder.
They will kill anyone who gets in their way, Muslims included, and we are doing nothing to stop it.
One problem is that many non-radical Muslims become very defensive when we start to criticize, even though it has nothing to do with them.
(Global Perspectives)
someone may have said it already but Pakistan is in a very bad spot. I'm sure they would love to let us go in there and clean Taliban out. The problem is that then they risk radicalizing much of their population against the government which would be a catastrophe since the govt is somewhat moderate. There's just no easy answer to the Pakistan problem.
(Global Perspectives)
Ervin,
I just wonder why the Pakistani military has been unable to do anything about the extremists in the northeast region. We all know that is probably where Bin Laden is hiding out. Though I read somewhere that the military is infiltrated by Taliban sympathizers.. as I mentioned above, which would make sense.
Very tenuous situation.
I just wonder why the Pakistani military has been unable to do anything about the extremists in the northeast region. We all know that is probably where Bin Laden is hiding out. Though I read somewhere that the military is infiltrated by Taliban sympathizers.. as I mentioned above, which would make sense.
Very tenuous situation.
(Global Perspectives)
The journalist who venture into these regions are very brave and courageously risk their own lives to expose the realities. (Far worse than any horror film I’ve seen).
The girls schools were blown up.
Women are not allowed to shop in the markets, so now - the businesses and shops are closed.
The wealthier people could flee but the frightened poor have to endure it.
We worry about global warming and the economy but there won’t be any planet left to worry about if these Mad blood lusting men take over, we’ll all be meeting our maker a lot sooner if they get their way and they are a lot more cunning than we naively give them credit for.
The girls schools were blown up.
Women are not allowed to shop in the markets, so now - the businesses and shops are closed.
The wealthier people could flee but the frightened poor have to endure it.
We worry about global warming and the economy but there won’t be any planet left to worry about if these Mad blood lusting men take over, we’ll all be meeting our maker a lot sooner if they get their way and they are a lot more cunning than we naively give them credit for.
(Global Perspectives)
You’re so right, Lynne.. with nuclear weapons in the hands of madmen, we won’t have to worry about anything.
(Global Perspectives)
Oh no, dont get me started on the taliban.....you are right, they are not normal thinking people of any capacity.
I think they are psychologically damaged from a young age, the problem of poverty in these regions means that the only universities and schools with enough funds are the religous madrassahs, and the only educations these kids receive are full of vitriolic hysterical ranting (imagine someone like hitler yelling and ranting in your face for a few years)they dont get any varieties of independant thinking with different subjects - its 90% fundamentalist Islam and a little language and math.
Its no wonder they turn out a ranting screaming mess, they are ready to kill and torture and carry on like nutters and blow themselves up because thats what theyve been taught God requires of them to make it into heaven.
I agree its a very troubling time that they are ganing in strength, I dont know what the answer is; but i know the wrong answer is to be doing deals with these morons. I dont know who would be natural allies against the taliban in the region that would be palatable enough for the geopolitics involved, I remember the northern alliance helped oust them previously.I dont think Iran would like the taliban because they are Shiah and taliban are Sunni.
I was thinking maybe the current US administration is using reverse psychology to bear on the Pakistan government to invoke a more co-operative partnership, by reminding them that their help if unnapreciated could leave Pakistan to the mercy of the taliban. at least i hope thats what theyre doing, trying to get Pakistan to act more seriously against this curse.
Reading the above posts and article it reminds me of the troubling insight of mindset of people celebrating after 9/11, they rejoice over such a sad thing that involved only innocent average people on their way to work.
The taliban have the same attitude - men women and children are all legitimate infidel targets and any means neccesary to kill them may be used, the more horrific the better God is pleased for the infidels punishment.
Well hopefully Pakistan can use the short time of peace this deal brings to rally its forces and seriously try to stategise against the Taliban with any help it can get.
I think they are psychologically damaged from a young age, the problem of poverty in these regions means that the only universities and schools with enough funds are the religous madrassahs, and the only educations these kids receive are full of vitriolic hysterical ranting (imagine someone like hitler yelling and ranting in your face for a few years)they dont get any varieties of independant thinking with different subjects - its 90% fundamentalist Islam and a little language and math.
Its no wonder they turn out a ranting screaming mess, they are ready to kill and torture and carry on like nutters and blow themselves up because thats what theyve been taught God requires of them to make it into heaven.
I agree its a very troubling time that they are ganing in strength, I dont know what the answer is; but i know the wrong answer is to be doing deals with these morons. I dont know who would be natural allies against the taliban in the region that would be palatable enough for the geopolitics involved, I remember the northern alliance helped oust them previously.I dont think Iran would like the taliban because they are Shiah and taliban are Sunni.
I was thinking maybe the current US administration is using reverse psychology to bear on the Pakistan government to invoke a more co-operative partnership, by reminding them that their help if unnapreciated could leave Pakistan to the mercy of the taliban. at least i hope thats what theyre doing, trying to get Pakistan to act more seriously against this curse.
Reading the above posts and article it reminds me of the troubling insight of mindset of people celebrating after 9/11, they rejoice over such a sad thing that involved only innocent average people on their way to work.
The taliban have the same attitude - men women and children are all legitimate infidel targets and any means neccesary to kill them may be used, the more horrific the better God is pleased for the infidels punishment.
Well hopefully Pakistan can use the short time of peace this deal brings to rally its forces and seriously try to stategise against the Taliban with any help it can get.
(Global Perspectives)
Steven Gary, Definitely a lot has to do with ignorance and poverty, but how do you counter that?
And yeah,, take away any beauty and enjoyment in life and no wonder they run around killing others.
I think Pakistan is unwilling and/or unable to rally its forces, and this short time of peace is going to allow the Taliban and other radicals to mobilize. I think this is the beginning of the end of Pakistan as we know it... though I hope I’m wrong.
And yeah,, take away any beauty and enjoyment in life and no wonder they run around killing others.
I think Pakistan is unwilling and/or unable to rally its forces, and this short time of peace is going to allow the Taliban and other radicals to mobilize. I think this is the beginning of the end of Pakistan as we know it... though I hope I’m wrong.
(Global Perspectives)
The article above actually has been written with the view point of West. Which is not fair. You have to analyze things happening in Afghanistan and specially in Pakistan. American troops are in Afghanistan and some more of 17000 are to come in future. And you expect people not to fight-back or react? Actually this is very much unlike to what Taliban and Pashtun community as a whole are. You got to see the tribal history of Pashtuns right from Gengez Khan to defeat of UK and USSR in Afghanistan (even though people say the USSR defeat was because of USA but i say would it be possible without Afghans themselves? Certainly not). Even all of these facts, yet americans decided to invade a country like Afghanistan on ambiguities and lies of 9/11.
Coming to now Pakistan. This is true that radicalization of Taliban are happening in some part of Pakistan and they are looking for nothing less than shariyah, which is the Law based upon Qur’an and Sunnah (authentic traditions of prophet muhammad asw). The question is if what they are claiming or looking is against islaam or not? To ponder upon this let us see what Qur’an say about it:
O ye who believe! Come, all of you, into submission (unto Him); and follow not the footsteps of the devil. Lo! he is an open enemy for you. (Al-Qur’an 2:208)
Another place it says:
”It is not fit for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger has indeed strayed in a clear deviation.” (Surah Al-Ahzaab 33:36)
at one more place it is said in Qur’an:
And whoever obeys Allaah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which river flow, to abide therein and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, and transgress His Limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein, and he shall have a disgraceful torment. (4:13-14)
These verse clearly saying that one has to obey Islaam completely and submit to Allaah and to obey the Prophet muhammad asw also. So how can one who claims to be a muslim and not yet live in Islaam. So we now got from Qur’an that whatever Talibaan is claiming is correct. But the question if they are completely correct or if they have some misinterpretation is another issue.
For example, i think that most of the things Taliban claiming are correct but their methodology might be wrong. One should not use weapon in hand fighting againt the govt even if the govt is fasiq (open sinner) rather they should try to tell them peacefully and continually keep on doing it which is in Islaamic terms called as amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar (calling for good and forbidding from evil) untill when Allaah actually brings the power in your hand to make it do through Law. This is what we get from true Islaam. Prophet Muhammad asw had struggle in Makkan era and then in Madinah when Allaah brought the power in his hands so they actually made the Shariah Law.
But then again we see the west and western minded thinkers do not let them live in peace and always criticise on their actions even if its good (like swaat peace-deal). If you put a dog / cat into a close surrounded area and try to catch them then it is possibility that they might attack on you in self defence. Same is happening with many of Taliban. First thing first, we neet to get rid of western from afghanistan, its all game of cause and effect. In 1996 onward, the Taliban actually took control of Afghanistan and brought peace and even cracked down on people that were criminal and Opium cultivation was completely eridicated, no one else but by same Taliban of Afghanistan. See, what your demcoracy has brought now, again Opium is cultivated in Afghanistan. And america can’t do a thing about it rather they only blaming on Taliban. If you see the Pakistan, in Pakistan democracy has brought continuation of lawlessness, social and political and economics problems they all are the things happening in current version of Democracy.
Now coming to the point written in the article about Democracy. the definition of Democracy according to merriam-webstar.com is:
Main Entry: de·moc·ra·cy
Pronunciation: \di-ma-kr-se\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural de·moc·ra·cies
”government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections”
According to this definition the supreme power lies with people. And the reality is that in Islaam the supreme power lies with Allaah. According to current version of Democracy if govt elected by the people change the law of Islaam, they can, which is utterly condemned and can’t be allowed in Islaam. Any such democracy where the Law of Allaah (Islaam) is supreme to people elected and they are bound to live by that Law and practise upon the ordinary people, then such democray can be allowed in Islaam.
I would say what i described above, if, is told to any religeous person in Pakistan i would hope that they would agree with me. But the problem is our govt are kind of slave to west or western ideologies. We don’t see in our daily life our women uncovered outside of home but yet the Tv in pakistan display uncovered (head etc) women and the ideos of liberalism all the time. If democracy is all about expressing the views etc the way in a community is then i would say Tv should not display what we don’t see in Pakistan.
Lastly, i would say that we must work for Peace, and americans should stop violating the Pakistan air-space and should stop firing and killing innocents through drones. Because neither we nor anyone has any right to kill anyone, but if they do then perhaps i guess you can’t control Taliban and reaction from them is obvious. But it seems that Americans or western powers deliberately using drones into territory so that no peace should be restrained into the area where there is blood-shed is happening.
Coming to now Pakistan. This is true that radicalization of Taliban are happening in some part of Pakistan and they are looking for nothing less than shariyah, which is the Law based upon Qur’an and Sunnah (authentic traditions of prophet muhammad asw). The question is if what they are claiming or looking is against islaam or not? To ponder upon this let us see what Qur’an say about it:
O ye who believe! Come, all of you, into submission (unto Him); and follow not the footsteps of the devil. Lo! he is an open enemy for you. (Al-Qur’an 2:208)
Another place it says:
”It is not fit for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger has indeed strayed in a clear deviation.” (Surah Al-Ahzaab 33:36)
at one more place it is said in Qur’an:
And whoever obeys Allaah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which river flow, to abide therein and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, and transgress His Limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein, and he shall have a disgraceful torment. (4:13-14)
These verse clearly saying that one has to obey Islaam completely and submit to Allaah and to obey the Prophet muhammad asw also. So how can one who claims to be a muslim and not yet live in Islaam. So we now got from Qur’an that whatever Talibaan is claiming is correct. But the question if they are completely correct or if they have some misinterpretation is another issue.
For example, i think that most of the things Taliban claiming are correct but their methodology might be wrong. One should not use weapon in hand fighting againt the govt even if the govt is fasiq (open sinner) rather they should try to tell them peacefully and continually keep on doing it which is in Islaamic terms called as amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar (calling for good and forbidding from evil) untill when Allaah actually brings the power in your hand to make it do through Law. This is what we get from true Islaam. Prophet Muhammad asw had struggle in Makkan era and then in Madinah when Allaah brought the power in his hands so they actually made the Shariah Law.
But then again we see the west and western minded thinkers do not let them live in peace and always criticise on their actions even if its good (like swaat peace-deal). If you put a dog / cat into a close surrounded area and try to catch them then it is possibility that they might attack on you in self defence. Same is happening with many of Taliban. First thing first, we neet to get rid of western from afghanistan, its all game of cause and effect. In 1996 onward, the Taliban actually took control of Afghanistan and brought peace and even cracked down on people that were criminal and Opium cultivation was completely eridicated, no one else but by same Taliban of Afghanistan. See, what your demcoracy has brought now, again Opium is cultivated in Afghanistan. And america can’t do a thing about it rather they only blaming on Taliban. If you see the Pakistan, in Pakistan democracy has brought continuation of lawlessness, social and political and economics problems they all are the things happening in current version of Democracy.
Now coming to the point written in the article about Democracy. the definition of Democracy according to merriam-webstar.com is:
Main Entry: de·moc·ra·cy
Pronunciation: \di-ma-kr-se\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural de·moc·ra·cies
”government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections”
According to this definition the supreme power lies with people. And the reality is that in Islaam the supreme power lies with Allaah. According to current version of Democracy if govt elected by the people change the law of Islaam, they can, which is utterly condemned and can’t be allowed in Islaam. Any such democracy where the Law of Allaah (Islaam) is supreme to people elected and they are bound to live by that Law and practise upon the ordinary people, then such democray can be allowed in Islaam.
I would say what i described above, if, is told to any religeous person in Pakistan i would hope that they would agree with me. But the problem is our govt are kind of slave to west or western ideologies. We don’t see in our daily life our women uncovered outside of home but yet the Tv in pakistan display uncovered (head etc) women and the ideos of liberalism all the time. If democracy is all about expressing the views etc the way in a community is then i would say Tv should not display what we don’t see in Pakistan.
Lastly, i would say that we must work for Peace, and americans should stop violating the Pakistan air-space and should stop firing and killing innocents through drones. Because neither we nor anyone has any right to kill anyone, but if they do then perhaps i guess you can’t control Taliban and reaction from them is obvious. But it seems that Americans or western powers deliberately using drones into territory so that no peace should be restrained into the area where there is blood-shed is happening.
(Local Perspectives)
”americans decided to invade a country like Afghanistan on ambiguities and lies of 9/11” c’mon Zaeem you dont believe all those conspiracy theories do you?
People make up conspiracy theories because they cant believe how much of an amazing feat 9/11 was in tactical planning.... but reality always outdoes fiction its things you couldnt invent if you tried.
Usama admitted to 9/11 and was proud of his work on various tapes and also by his friends, so firstly its not a conspiracy! and sir to use your logic ”And you expect people not to fight-back or react?”
I was interested reading your blog to get an understanding from a Muslim perspective, and some points I didnt realise that the Taliban cracked down on the drugs, i agree heroine is such a horrible drug it needs to be eradicated.
But why the west is so antagonistic against the Taliban and Al quaeda, is because they killed or threaten our citizens with surprise attacks on innocent people, to get attention and advertise their cause. London bombings, Bali bombings, 9/11 etc
How else can we react when its muslim fundamentalists that target us this way, because they think that we are sinful targets, for their vain gloryseeking. They have no dignity with such targets.
If thats what they want to preach and do, then they have to at least have the maturity to accept the consequences of their actions - rather than making up silly things like 9/11 is a conspiracy, and blaming it all on the west.
I dont know peace is better but how do we co exist with such opposing views in this world.
People make up conspiracy theories because they cant believe how much of an amazing feat 9/11 was in tactical planning.... but reality always outdoes fiction its things you couldnt invent if you tried.
Usama admitted to 9/11 and was proud of his work on various tapes and also by his friends, so firstly its not a conspiracy! and sir to use your logic ”And you expect people not to fight-back or react?”
I was interested reading your blog to get an understanding from a Muslim perspective, and some points I didnt realise that the Taliban cracked down on the drugs, i agree heroine is such a horrible drug it needs to be eradicated.
But why the west is so antagonistic against the Taliban and Al quaeda, is because they killed or threaten our citizens with surprise attacks on innocent people, to get attention and advertise their cause. London bombings, Bali bombings, 9/11 etc
How else can we react when its muslim fundamentalists that target us this way, because they think that we are sinful targets, for their vain gloryseeking. They have no dignity with such targets.
If thats what they want to preach and do, then they have to at least have the maturity to accept the consequences of their actions - rather than making up silly things like 9/11 is a conspiracy, and blaming it all on the west.
I dont know peace is better but how do we co exist with such opposing views in this world.
(Global Perspectives)
Add your Comment
Their souls have truely been sold out to the Devil.
A documentry featured here last night showed that Pakistan is in the grips far worse than the gestapo’s of Hitler’s reign.
The terrified locals have to now witness - beheaded bodies every morning, floggings, whippings with nails embedded, shootings of civilians.
The taliban henchmen had their faces hidden while committing these atrocities.
Afganistan, Pakistan - watch out world we have a cancerous growth - where will they head to next?
They have nothing to loose, kill all infidels or die a matyre trying to, they believe they go to heaven what ever crimes they commit against humanity.
And they HAVE been sold out, but problem is, there is talk that there are those in the military and security who actually sympathize with the Taliban, so perhaps that’s why nothing was ever really accomplished. There is fear as well, and I think many are just tired of the violence in that area.. but I think what they are in for will be far worse.
Where will they head to next. Other radicals will see this as a red-light to conquer the world. All you have to do is read the jihad websites. They’re all salivating.